Interview by: Ember Sappington, Staff Writer
Transcript
Leah Geisler [LG]: Welcome to The Grappler Wrights of Spring Series for 2022. This week , we will be sharing four interviews with you from the third-year playwrights. These interviews are like telescopes into the worlds these playwrights are in and how they went about creating their work. Stay tuned this week to listen to the rest of this series.
Today we have an interview for you from the playwright Holly Dodd, who wrote Heartbeat. Holly is a playwright, screenwriter and graphic designer who grew up between rural Texas and Nashville, Tennessee. She finds inspiration in her southern upbringing and feminist history. She is politically active and is passionate about the future of Texas. She hopes to write for television one day with more shows focusing on women's stories.
Ember Sappington [ES]: Alright, super cool. So as Wrights of Spring has already started-
Holly Dodd [HD]: -Yeah-
ES: Wrights of Spring is the thing that has flooded the poster board section by the elevator, in TTS, but we're here to talk about Holly's play Heartbeat. So tell us just a little bit of a rundown about this beautiful thing that you've created.
HD: Yeah. So this play really is a, almost, I want to say verging on a dark comedy take on the abortion ban in Texas that went into effect in September, as a text, and I just felt like really like, oh, I need to talk about this shit because I can't stop thinking about it. I'm in so much of a rage. We meet Twyla who finds herself in an unexpected and unwanted pregnancy. And the story really follows her trying to make this decision with only, you know, just a limited time to make her decision, considering how early the ban takes into a place within the weeks of a pregnancy. And so it's a really hard decision. It's never an easy one to make. And so she's having to go through this decision while also knowing that she's on a ticking time clock. And she's also in a very conservative, small town environment. So she's battling culture as well as time.
ES: Wow, very much speaking to the time right now. So it's intense?
HD: It can be but I really do try to lighten it up with humor. I feel like with these kinds of topics, if you put too much emphasis on the heavy stuff, then it can become really heavy. And audiences don't necessarily ingest it as well, because it's just so much, it becomes too much. And so I really tried to balance it out with some comedy in there as well.
ES: Nice, because I feel like a lot of times in classes or in town halls, you hear people at TTS going, "Oh, we're doing another like trauma porn," is the word that gets thrown around. So that's really nice that it's got like-
HD: Yeah, I feel like it can get way too heavy. And so I wanted one, you know, one thing that was really important to me is that I had a team on my side of almost entirely made up of people who can get pregnant. And so there was only one person within the team that's been working on this reading, who does play a cisgender man that cannot get pregnant. And so that is, you know, I wanted it to be a team made up of people who are directly affected by these issues, no matter their gender identity.
ES: And that seems like that gives you so much space to make a place to talk about it and just work through it in the process. So we were talking a little bit about this, like the timeliness of this play, especially now with the whole draft being leaked about Roe v. Wade-
HD: -Oh my God-
ES: Did that, you were really far into your process of writing this, you said you started December?
HD: Yes, you start generating ideas in September when we start fall quarter. And we pick an idea, I believe halfway through the first quarter, and we are required to stick with it three right to spring. It's just what happens in junior year, because Carlos was always building off of the year before that me like, "Okay, so now we're gonna focus on writing a play for a really long time and sticking through it and seeing where it goes instead of just write a play," which I think is a really important skill to have. And I really commend Carlos on that technique, because it can be really, really hard. And as an Aries, who wants to start a new project every five seconds, I really appreciate being forced to stay with one project.-
ES: -Through the course-
HD: -Yeah-
ES: -Yeah. So this came up in the middle of you, I mean, towards the end of your writing, then. Like you'd already been on this project for a long time. Did that affect your writing process? Or were you just like, wow.
HD: It affected some of the things that I talked about in the play and some ideas that I have that have yet to make it in the play. I am hoping to get those rewrites done tonight before my last rehearsal pre-reading. But it really made me think about like, okay, yes, this is strictly about the Texas abortion ban, the Heartbeat Act, but what is its relation to the larger situation in the United States and how do I bring that into the play? And that's something I'm still working on, but it's something that I'm conscious of constantly when I'm doing my rewrites and figuring out... reordering things and figuring out where things are going. But you know, I am someone who has been really listening and really paying attention to what's going on. Like I saw the other day that Oklahoma has decided to ban abortion at fertilization. Yeah. Which, what?
ES: Oh, wow.
HD: Yeah. Um, and also, just like, I've been paying attention to Texas politics, you know, my whole life, you know, but particularly in the past few years, because it has gone downhill so quickly. You know, it's my parent-, my, my mother and my grandmother, they live down there. And so it was very scary. The freeze was very, very scary. My poor 75-year-old grandmother, had to drive on the, on the icy backroads, because, you know, it's a small town, my mom was in the country and like, drives to my mom's house, because my mom miraculously still had heat and power throughout the whole freeze, and just she had to get over there. So I really, since that I've been really paying attention. And I'm really sad that I cannot do absentee voting in Texas, because it's been so long since I lived there.
ES: Yeah, and you know, I'm also from a small town in the country. And I think I don't know, being at TTS is sometimes a really crazy experience with people, they just don't really understand what it's like to be coming from a rural area where people are surrounded by really conservative stuff.
HD: Yeah. And I think that's part of that was also a big inspiration for a while for the setting. The setting is very, very much based on my hometown. Pretty much, I will be changing the name of the town. But everything you hear about the town is true. It's kind of wild, I tell people "Oh, yeah, we had a dairy pageant." And they're like, "what, you had a what?" But I find that and that's another reason why I wanted to set it there specifically and not, you know, in a Texas city is because, one, you know, in rural Texas, in rural places, in general health care already is hard to find. And then you know, you know, a conservative culture on top of it, and then abortion clinics make it even harder to find. I also just really, really wanted to put that out there, especially for TTS because it feels so isolating, sometimes coming from those rural places. But everyone's from LA, Houston, you know, all most of the Texans I know at TTS are from the city. And, you know, I have the firm belief that a city Texan and a rural Texan are very different. And there's nothing wrong with either/or, but I don't feel like I can really relate to a lot of people at TTS. And I thought, well, why not take this opportunity, since I want to write about this issue, to set it in a place that I know, and that maybe others don't as well.
ES: I think that's really amazing. Because I was recently just thinking about it, because I'm from rural Northeastern Michigan, which is like an arts desert, there's nothing. And there's there's no theatres, in that entire region of the state. So it's like, people just don't get that. And the thing I've noticed recently is like, every time TTS does, like a show that set it to high school, it's a private high school, oh, they wear a uniform.
HD: And that's another thing that I really wanted to focus on in my play. You know, as someone who comes from a lower income family, I wanted my main characters to be of that same background, especially because my hometown is very strong, I think it's and I could be totally in this percentage, because I'm thinking off the top of my head, but somewhere between 70 to 80%, blue collar work, because there's just not a lot of white collar jobs going on in such a rural place. And so I really wanted to represent that because I feel like in theatre in general, not just in The Theatre School, we see so much about people who grow up with money, and we don't see a lot about or, you know, people who grew up, not necessarily with a lot of money, but they're middle class, but we don't see a lot about those lower income people who are living paycheck to paycheck, and I really, you know, it was, I wouldn't say it was necessarily purposeful, but that's just how it came about where I was like, okay, so it's set in rural Texas. Oh, okay, so they're poor. Oh, okay. So, you know, these are the people that I'm writing about. And it just ended up being that which is a stark contrast to a lot of the theatre- that we see in Chicago in general- and that we see at The Theatre School.
ES: Yeah, I think there's something that people don't even understand. We're like, like, even I'm in my second year being at The Theatre School, and I don't really even understand what you do at a white collar job. I remember, what even do you do in an office building? Right?
HD: Like, what is your job? Like what you do?
ES: Do you just send emails, that seems impossible, because like, when you grew up in a small town, it's like you can build something. Or you can be a waitress or you can work at a small business and sell things or you can own the places where those people work. It's all very practical things that you know.
HD: It's interesting that I've never seen that. I just had a thought it's like, it's interesting that I'm putting this on at a college. When you're in a rural place, you don't need college degrees necessarily. Now, you may need vocational training for certain things. Like if you run a car shop, you know, that's something you vocational training for. But like my mother, she is an insurance agent at a small insurance company. And you know, you think, oh, she could have worked remotely during the pandemic, but she couldn't because it was such a small business and they serviced people have such low-income status that they did not get checks, they got cash. So she ended up being an essential worker because of that. And I think people forget that small towns are made up almost entirely of essential workers who were putting themselves on the line during the pandemic, and it's an entire town.
ES: Yeah, yeah. I remember, my siblings were in elementary school and high school during like the length of the pandemic and they sent out paper packets, because not everyone has internet. And they had to like-
HD: The Internet in rural places is so awful. I, due to some family issues, I had to go back to Texas over spring break. And you know, college was kind enough to give me a small extension in light of that. I remember I was I was staying with my meemaw, because she's my best friend. And I was trying to write. I do all my writing on Google Docs.
ES: Google Docs does not do slow internet.
HD: No, it doesn't. And I'm staring at it. And I'm like, I type a letter and five minutes later. And I sent Carlos an email from my phone. I was like, "Hey, Carlos, I'm in like, the middle of nowhere, you're gonna get it when you're gonna get it because my internet is so bad."
ES: Yeah, it's just, it's just amazing to see a show that's like about a small town. And it's obviously had such an impact on the writing and the storytelling that you're doing stylistically. What like, the influence on a play is there's certain playwright or style or like, aspect of dramatic theory that you kind of see showing up in this play for you, or?
HD: Oh, my gosh, I mean, you know, I really find that I was really pushing myself Chekhov, Ibsen, those, you know, style plays.
However, this time, I found myself... Carlos will be so proud of me, I did not use an outline. And when I stopped using outlines, I kind of veered towards, you know, yes, naturalistic, but also paired with that breaking the fourth wall. And speaking directly to the audience, I just really kind of let myself be free. And instead of it being really naturalistic, it ended up being kind of postdramatic, which I had never written anything like that before. And I think it's a testament to the fact that Carlos was right about me not using outlines, because this is probably my favorite thing I've written since being at school.
ES: Really? Well that's exciting. That's amazing.
HD: Yeah.
ES: That's really cool.
HD: It's also really nervewracking. People are gonna see it tomorrow.
ES: And so it premieres on the 21st?
HD: It premiers on the 21st. And then there's another show at eight o'clock on the 28th.
ES: Wow. So exciting. It must be also so scary.
HD: So, so scary. I've been panic writing all day.
ES: And as a playwright, what has been like your interaction with other parts of school as you've been like getting ready to go to a reading and like, how has that affected the way you've looked at this process? Like, how's that all gone for you?
HD: In the past, for Wrights of Spring, I directed my works. However, I took directing last quarter and quickly realized I should not be directing my own work.
It's just not my natural skill set. I'm a Virgo rising. I like to be in control. But I had to realize no, you don't get to be in control with this one, just, you're not the right person. So the first thing I wanted to do was find a director, because I knew like finding a director that I was going to vibe with very well was going to be really important, probably the most important aspect of it. So I ended up reaching out to Chris Campbell, who I love to death. They are a directing concentration. And they are from the south. And they are someone who has the ability to get pregnant, so it directly affects them. And so it was kind of like: Check, check, check. Also, I love Chris as a person. So it was just really, really lovely to get to work with them. And so it actually really showed me like that theatre is more of a collaborative process than I've been treating it as I think as playwright majors specifically we are, I feel one of the most isolated within theatre studies because we are not assigned shows. Yeah. And so we don't get that collaboration as much. And I found that once I was able to pick out like, people that weren't just the cast to work with, it became an even more collaborative process. And that's something I really enjoyed.
And it's like, I will still call Chris, I'm like, "Okay, I've got this idea. What do you think of it," you know, or, you know, the actors will ask, like, "Well, how do you want me to play, you know, this one thing?" And Chris will generally be like, "Do you have thoughts?" I'm like, I don't have thoughts, do you have thoughts?" And Chris is gonna be like, I don't have thoughts, if they do it'll be like, "I have this small thought." You know, and it's very much a collaborative experience. And I almost feel like I'm writing the play with the room that I'm in, if that makes sense. Like they're coinciding together in a way that I don't think I would have changed the play, without that time with the cast and with Chris.
ES: And that's a really beautiful thing to make art with people.
HD: Yeah.
ES: It is kind of like the thing that's made the pandemic hard. I mean, we're really getting back to live performance. And the concept of being in a room with people doing art live, is like becoming a thing again. But I think the fact that theatre is so much about like being there, and doing things as a group, and like that feedback loop that is so real.
HD: Yeah, and I am not a movement person. Anybody will tell you, I don't dance in front of my family, like I don't, I get so self-conscious when I'm moving around. But I will literally be pacing in my tiny dorm room, like practicing lines, as I'm writing them to figure it out. And I don't think I would have done that without in-person school, forcing me to get up and move around during classes. Being in those rooms and you know, being forced to let my body just move as it does, has actually given me a really strong writing tool. Being in person in school and being in person in this Wrights of Spring process has probably been one of the keys to the plate getting where it is, it's actually undergone five different concept changes since September, it was a completely different concept. None of the characters from the first iteration are in.
ES: Wow!
HD: Yeah, it's like completely different. But all for the better. And, you know, I really do appreciate the community that I found with the other BFA3s and being able to tell each other like "I really like this, this part confuses me" without any of us taking it personally. I think some of the advice I've gotten from the other BFA3s has been probably the best advice that I've gotten.
ES: So in this play, how does it kind of make meaning for you, what, what components of it feel really special to you?
HD: I think one of the most personal aspects of the play is, you know, it's setting. As I've said before, you know, it is based off of my hometown. But there's also this sense about the setting of like, being trapped. And that's something that I felt, you know, the entire time was there, or, you know, there's a monologue that I'm hoping I can find a place for before tomorrow. And it's one that I've been holding on to for a while, but it was kind of based on... you know, the monologue, talks about how the only place to go in a small town for fun is Walmart.
ES: Oh my gosh, yeah!
HD: And like, that moment of like, you're in the store as a kid, and you're following your mom and dad, and you're like, I don't want to be here-
ES: I hate Walmart, it is purgatory, it is hell-
HD: -But then your friends get a car and you go to hang out by yourself without parents for the first time. You're like, "what are we going to do?" And you stare at each other for more like 10 minutes and be like, "I guess we're gonna go to Walmart." And you figure out how to make Walmart your playground because there was nothing else to do. You crawl in the forbidden ball pit. You get the popcorn chicken. You secretly make a blanket fort in the home goods aisle. You sniff every scented candle, and you make it a place that's fun, because that's your only option. And so, there are a lot of moments in this play that are very, very personal, um, based off my own experience, and I would say really like, it is the setting and it is the culture.
You know, I did not grow up going to church every week. But the culture that I grew up in was a very fundamentalist evangelical. You know, thinking about well, how, how does the culture in this town operate? And it's like, oh, it's all about Jesus. But it's something you know, religion and how religion operates is how.. something I had to really think about, but really like the most personal aspects really are like the setting and the culture. And, you know, there are some lines in the play where I'm like, oof, that one hit close to home. But I keep it in there because it's real, you know, something that I was really...
I had this concept at some point in the first quarter. And I remember, it was either right after or right before, but there was, you know, the march for abortion rights in October, and I went to it. And I remember, and I kind of knew this is the moment when I really wanted to write this play, while I felt this play is needed no matter what iteration, it comes out as. Because I never wanted it to be preachy, but I wanted it to be human. Because what happened was that I saw this woman, this older woman, maybe in her 60s, and she was holding the sign that said, something like, you know, "fuck Texas," or, you know, something of that nature. And I'd seen so many of those signs that day. And I was so angry with them, that I finally just let it boil over. And I was like, "I really hope you mean the government and not the people." And she had the audacity to look at me and be like, well, "The people voted Greg Abbott in." And, and people don't understand. I was like, "You don't understand. Greg Abbott, is, has been almost not technically, but almost illegally occupying that seat as governor through gerrymandering forever. And people forget that there are people who can get pregnant in Texas, there are queer people in Texas, there are people of color in Texas, there are immigrants in Texas. And when, and I find it is usually people who are not from the south. But they judge the people who are from the south, based off of their government. And it's like, well, what about people who are like you, that just so happened to have been born and raised in the south?
And so I found, that's the moment where I was like, I have to write this play, because I have to channel all my anger, all of this judgment, and all of this, you know, legal situation. And then it just kept getting worse, and worse. And Greg was like, "We're going to investigate pairents of trans kids for child abuse, oh, and we're gonna take education from undocumented children, and we're gonna-" Like, it's just this, it just keeps getting worse. And as much as I hate it, it just fuels my anger more, and then I write more, um, but it is really, just so infuriating. And I found that when I was angry, I was just, like, compelled to write about it. And I don't think I've ever felt that emotional need to write to get things out. I know, a lot of writers write to cope with, you know, to cope with certain things I've never been- I wouldn't say I've been one of those writers, I definitely did write to cope, but I didn't write about the things I was coping with.
And now, I've become so upset by this whole situation, for obvious reasons, that I've started using this play to cope with that anger. And that feeling that I can't do anything right now, this is all I can do, because I am not eligible for an absentee ballot in Texas. And so I just.. for this play, it felt really good to write about it.
And I really do hope that people walk away from it being like, "We've seen, you know, people who live in the rural south, it's people," and also seeing, you know, that like, this policy doesn't just, you know, affect people in cities, or affect people in the north or affect people, you know, wherever or, you know, affect people who are born with money, it affects everybody, and it particularly affects the most disenfranchised groups in this country, especially when you consider that the majority of abortions are received by, you know, pregnant people of color. And so I just feel like- and that's also one of the reasons why, you know, when Chris asked me, they were like, "Do you want anything specific?" I was like, "These roles, I want it to be people who can get pregnant, other than that, don't really care."
Because it really is just like, this affects everybody and anybody. It even affects, you know, the pro-life people. I saw this TikTok recently that was like, Oh, so you're pro-life. So you decide to have the accidental baby you decide to have it. But then you have a miscarriage, and then you're getting investigated for that miscarriage, and you're saying, Oh, it was an accident, but they don't believe you and then you're going to jail for it. And I really just wanted to, I just really hope people can come away from it seeing this situation is not just a political one, but a human one.
ES: Yes. It sounds like a lovely, beautiful play.
HD: It's funny, I promise. It's funny. It sounds really dark and heavy. But it is really funny. I worked really hard on that, because comedy is not always my strong suit.
But I'm really proud of some of the comedic gems in it as well.
ES: It's- I'm so excited to see it, I'm gonna have to get a ticket to see it if there are still tickets. So let's talk about how you come and see this lovely show Heartbeat by Holly Dodd during Wrights of Spring.
HD: Um, yeah, so if you want to see any show during Wrights of Spring including debutante ball, you'll go to the Wrights of Spring website under the ticketing section, and then you'll click on the link for whatever show you want to see and it'll have a Google form. I do know that some shows are sold out as far- from the last time I checked, neither of my shows are sold out yet so there's still time.
But yeah, so you just, the easiest way I've found to find the website because if you Google Wrights of Spring or even Wrights of Spring at DePaul doesn't pop up, is just go to the Wrights of Spring Instagram page. They're lovely. And the link will be in their bio and you can go from there. But that is the way that you get it. It is not first come first serve. There are waitlist for the shows that are sold out. So if you get your tickets quickly for those waitlists you're likely to get in. So that is, that is how you come see it, and it's really fun, and I'm really excited and terrified for people to see it.
ES: All right. Well, thank you so much.
LG: Thanks for listening to The Grappler's 2022 Wrights of Spring Series. This interview is conducted and audio engineered by Ember Sappington.
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